Former POWs reject Utah man’s claims of being one of them

Former POWs reject Utah man’s claims Stolen valor?
A nonprofit that investigates vets’ claims of service says the Utah man is not on a Department of Defense list of POWs.

By Kristen Moulton
The Salt Lake Tribune
First Published Apr 20 2012
POWs from the Vietnam War contend that Dave Groves, a West Jordan man honored last week by the Veterans Administration and years ago by the University of Utah, was never held captive in Vietnam.

(Al Hartmann The Salt Lake Tribune) Dave Groves, who claims he was captured and held as a POW in the Vietnam war, shakes the hands of POWs from World War II during a POW appreciation luncheon Friday, April 13, in Salt Lake City. Some now question Groves' account.

Groves does not appear on a database of Department of Defense Vietnam-era POWs, compiled from military records.

"He’s a typical liar," said Mike McGrath, historian of Nam-Pow, a nonprofit organization of Vietnam prisoners of war. "There are 540 of us still alive from Vietnam, and we have 3,000 wannabees who want to be us."

Groves, who has hired an attorney after a week of online challenges to his truthfulness, insists he was a POW who for unexplained reasons does not appear in the Pentagon’s database.
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DOD Suicide Prevention Task Force Includes Vientnam Vet POW

DoD stands up task force for suicide prevention
By Gerry J. Gilmore American Forces Press Service
Published: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:06 AM CDT
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WASHINGTON, D.C. - A Defense Department-sponsored task force will examine the military's suicide-prevention programs to ascertain what works and what doesn't, a senior health official said Sept. 3.

The military services provide a plethora of programs designed to help service members and families cope with the stresses associated with wartime conflict and overseas deployments, said Mark Bates, clinical psychologist and interim director for the Resilience and Prevention Directorate at the Defense Centers of Excellence for Psychological Health and Traumatic Brain Injury.

The congressionally-directed task force was established recently to provide the department "the best level of guidance on how to improve our suicide-prevention programs," Bates told reporters from American Forces Press Service and the Pentagon Channel.


The task force's 14 members were selected to represent a cross-section of military and civilian experts in policy, research, and clinical practices for suicide prevention, Bates said. Panel members, he added, will work closely with the services.

Robert G. Certain
Robert G. Certain is currently an Interim Rector at St. Peter & St. Paul Episcopal Church in Marietta, Georgia. His past position included: St. Margaret’s Episcopal Church and School in Palm Desert, California (1998-2007); Priest in Charge, St. Barnabas on the Desert Episcopal Church, Scottsdale, Arizona (1998-2007); Rector, St. Alban’s Parish, Harlingen, Texas (1989-1994); Rector, Holy Apostles Parish, Memphis, Tennessee (1985-1989); Rector, Trinity Parish,Yazoo City, Mississippi (1978-1985); Assistant Rector, St. Peter’s Parish, Kerrville, Texas (1977-1976); and Assistant Rector, Christ Episcopal Church, South Pittsburg, Tennessee (1974-
1976).
Reverend Certain’s education and professional training began at Emory University, Atlanta,Georgia with a BA (1969), The School of Theology—The University of the South, Sewanee,Tennessee with a Master of Divinity (1976) and a Doctor of Ministry (1990). He was ordained a Deacon in 1975 and a Priest in 1976. In addition, Reverend Certain has been published in many publications. He was most recently published in “Salvation Through Christ Alone: Not a Question for Debate,” The Living Church, October 1, 2006.
Reverend Certain’s military career began in 1969 as a Navigator/Bombardier Squadron and Wing. From 1972 to 1973 he was a prisoner of war in Hanoi, North Vietnam. His awards and decorations include the Bronze Star (Valor), Meritorious Service Medal, Prisoner of War Medal,Vietnam Service Medal, Distinguished Fly Cross (Heroism), Purple Heart (1 OLC), Air Medal (4 OLC), Air Force Commendation Medal, and the Representative of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry.
He left active duty in 1977 and retired as a Chaplain, in the United States Air Force Reserves at the USAF Academy on July 8, 1999.

DHB Subcommittees
Department of Defense Task Force on the Prevention of Suicide by Members of the Armed Forces
Alan Berman, PhD

John C. Bradley, MD, COL, MC, US Army

Bonnie Carroll

Robert Glenn Certain, PhD

SgtMaj Ronald Green

Marjan Holloway, PhD

David Jobes, PhD

Janet Kemp, RN, PhD

David Litts, OD, FAAO

CMSgt Troy McIntosh

Richard McKeon, PhD, MPH

MGySgt Peter Proietto

MG Philip Volpe

CDR Aaron Werbel, PhD
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http://www.ftleavenworthlamp.com/articles/2009/09/10/dod_news/dod6.txt

Real Ex-POW's Veterans History Project Wants to Know Your Story

Ex-POWs battle against time to tell stories

By James Hannah - The Associated Press
Posted : Monday Jul 27, 2009 7:34:38 EDT

DAYTON, Ohio — Museums are seeing an increase in donations and oral histories from the swell of former U.S. prisoners of war eager to leave their legacies. But museum officials still worry that too many POWs approaching their late 80s and 90s will go to their graves without publicly telling their stories.

The National Prisoner of War Museum, in Andersonville, Ga., said it expects to have a 40 percent increase in artifacts, journals and other donations from former POWs this year compared to last year. Primarily, those contributions are coming from those who fought in World War II.

The number of U.S. POWs in World War II, about 130,000, dwarfs those from other wars. There were about 7,000 POWs in the Korean War, and about 725 in the Vietnam War. World War II ended more than 60 years ago, and the number of U.S. POWs is shrinking fast.
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Ex-POWs battle against time to tell stories

McCain Was Not Tortured, POW Guard Claims

McCain Was Not Tortured, POW Guard Claims

By John Hooper, The Guardian. Posted October 15, 2008.



An interview with the chief prison guard of the North Vietnamese jail in which McCain was held claims, "We never tortured McCain."

The Republican US presidential candidate John McCain was not tortured during his captivity in North Vietnam, the chief prison guard of the jail in which he was held has claimed.

In an interview with the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, Nguyen Tien Tran acknowledged that conditions in the prison were "tough, though not inhuman". But, he added: "We never tortured McCain. On the contrary, we saved his life, curing him with extremely valuable medicines that at times were not available to our own wounded."

McCain, who fell into enemy hands after his plane was shot down in 1967, has frequently referred to being tortured and has cited his experiences as a reason for vigorously opposing the endorsement by the Bush administration of the use of techniques such as "water-boarding" on terrorist suspects.

Shortly after his release in 1973 McCain told US News & World Report that his prison guards had beaten him "from pillar to post". After being worked over at intervals for four days, he said, he had become suicidal and agreed to sign a "confession" admitting to war crimes.

In his 1999 autobiography, Faith of My Fathers, he described how after his capture he was subjected to inhuman treatment in an effort to force him to disclose his ship's name, squadron number and the target of his final mission. He was threatened with the withdrawal of medical assistance and, while still suffering from his crash injuries, his guards "knocked me around a little".

For his service in Vietnam and his actions as a POW, McCain was awarded the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, the Bronze Star, the Navy Commendation Medal and the Purple Heart.

Tran, now 75, said McCain reached Hanoi with the worst injuries he had seen in a downed pilot. But he denied torturing him, saying it was his mission to ensure that McCain survived. As the son of the US naval commander in Vietnam, he offered a potential valuable propaganda weapon.
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140 POW's from multiple wars gather together

POWs from multiple wars gather

The Associated Press
Posted : Sunday Sep 21, 2008 10:01:42 EDT

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — About 140 men who were prisoners of war met in Kansas City this weekend to share their stories and some camaraderie.

Many of the veterans at the 61st national convention of the American Ex-Prisoners of War served during World War II including some who were in German POW camps and others who survived the Bataan Death March — the 1942 march of thousands of American and Filipino prisoners by the Japanese.

Others attending the convention, which runs through Sunday, were POWs in the Korean or Vietnam wars.

Despite their special bond, the veterans didn’t come to Kansas City just to share war stories, said Paul Dillon of Maryland Heights, Mo.

“These guys will not let you call them heroes,” said Dillon, who attended with his father, Red Dillon, a ball-turret gunner on a B-17 bomber that was shot down over Europe during World War II. “These are ordinary people who showed the greatest valor by simply enduring under extraordinary circumstances.”
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/ap_pow_reunion_092108/

Another Vietnam POW comes out against John McCain

POW Imprisoned with McCain Goes on TV: McCain 'Not Cut Out to be President'
Brave New Films
Sep 02, 2008
September 2, 2008, Los Angeles, CA - Dr. Philip Butler on McCain: "I think I can say with authority that the Prisoner Of War experience is not a good prerequisite for President. John McCain is not somebody I would like to see with his finger near the red button. Dr. Philip Butler, a highly decorated combat veteran who was imprisoned alongside John McCain at the infamous 'Hanoi Hilton' prison in Vietnam, has gone on record with his opinion of the GOP presidential candidate in a short video interview with Brave New PAC. Click here to watch the video of Philip Butler.
Dr. Butler was shot down over North Vietnam in April, 1965 and was brought to the Hanoi Hilton prison, two and a half years prior to McCain's arrival. He spent eight years in captivity. Butler is critical of McCain's habitual use of his P.O.W. story to advance his presidential campaign.
"John has allowed I think the media to make him out to be the P.O.W., the hero, and in fact there were over 600 just like him who performed just as well." Echoing a similar assertion from General Wesley Clark two months ago, Butler continues, "I think I can say with authority that the Prisoner Of War experience is not a good prerequisite for President of the United States."Having lived across the hall from John McCain at the U.S. Naval Academy prior to combat, Butler was a close witness to McCain's famously volatile temperament. "He was very sensitive and touchy and just easy to anger," says Dr. Butler. "John McCain is not somebody I would like to see with his finger near the red button." Butler continues, "John McCain's temperament makes it clear that he is not cut out to be President of the United States."
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http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/ArticleID/11054